2. Is what flummoxes teachers in high poverty schools precisely that so many of their kids fail Next Day Correct?
So they don't see a point to Retrieval Practice. Also the pacing guide says "Move on." Kafka.
2. They receive handwavey suggestion from some instructional coaches. Oh when we get back to this topic to Retrieval Practice, that's where you can sort of fix all the kids who failed on Next Day Correct."
But if kid didn't grasp it in 50 minutes, empirically what are chances he does grasp it after 20 additional minutes 2 weeks later? Seems low to me.
Carl Hendrick worries about Shallow Understanding with Next Day correct. I agree that's a concern.
But I also think many teachers would say - Actually, Shallow Understanding is a GOOD problem to have in my school. Many kids have zero shallow grasp the next day, so there's not even the Illusion to worry about.
I agree that this creates a negative cycle in high poverty schools. “They don’t remember anything…” etc. We fiddle with the initial instruction, try to motivate kids, but it’s the back end where you can often make the biggest gains.
I think a few examples are helpful here re: shallow understanding
A lot of my students struggle to remember that 4 - 7 = -3. They have a strong association between 4, 7, -, and 3 and keep saying it’s positive. It always takes multiple rounds because students are “unlearning” something while also learning something new. This skill is important! We should get it right. The instruction looks like visualizing on number lines, explaining why it’s negative, turn and talk, maybe some writing, practice just negative vs positive. Doesn’t take tons and tons of time, we make steady progress on first time correct until every student knows it. That’s not a deep understanding vs shallow understanding. Lots of students can explain why it’s true but still forget because their habits lead them astray. First time correct helps to shift those habits.
A lot of my students don’t know the meanings of “increase” and “decrease.” Especially common for English language learners. This makes percent increase/decrease problems tough. So we do a little mini-lesson before percent increase/decrease. Here’s what increase and decrease mean, here are some examples, let’s practice a bit, what’s 10 increased by 5. Takes less then 10 minutes. Students have to know this! Good words to learn, helps all the tax/tip/discount/etc stuff stick together. So we do first time correct to see if we’re all there or if we need another 5 minute mini-lesson. First time correct is good for a lot of vocab stuff like this. This supports deep knowledge because increase/decrease help students to think clearly about the percent stuff.
Final example is multi-step procedures. Think solving multi-step equations, multi-digit arithmetic, etc. We all know students will take multiple days to get these procedures down. I often start at about 50% modeling/worked examples/scaffolded practice, 50% independent practice. Then we go down to 25%/75%/ Then 10%/90%. Are we ready to go to 100% independent practice or do students need that 10% to get them started? That’s a tough transition. Again, not necessarily about shallow vs deep understanding, it’s just a complex skill, students need practice to get it right. First time correct helps me figure out if they’re ready to do it independently (which is key for long-term retention, if I always give a quick “hey students don’t forget to…” at the start they become dependent on it) or if we need to keep the scaffolding a bit longer.
Always love to see the Cognitive Resonance version of the Simple Model of the Mind, thanks for sharing. It prompted to finally ask Dan Willingham, who is Greg Cullen, the person who is copyright credited for said model in Dan's book Why Don't Students Like School? For years I assumed he was a cognitive scientist somewhere. Nope, turns out he's an illustrator who's friends with Dan's daughter.
Do you do the "First Time Correct'" checks on mini whiteboards the next day?
Also, how do you plan to re-teach if you find that many students are able to start the procedure but unable to arrive at the accurate answer, with a handful having completely gotten it and another handful having completely forgotten it? This is usually the case in my middle-ability classes.
Yes, mini whiteboards are almost always the way I do the check. Sometimes I use the Do Now but I generally prefer mini whiteboards.
To your second question — here’s where I try to prioritize, because it’s overwhelming to try and reteach every single thing and what you’re describing takes time.
This week I’m teaching students to solve equations like 2(x+1) = 20 by dividing by 2 to get x + 1 = 10. It’s a tough skill and a lot of students didn’t get it the first time. I have a scaffolded sequence I take students through where we start with 2x = 20 (which all students are confident with), then 2(x) = 20 (looks unfamiliar but is an important piece of scaffolding and builds off the last problem), then 2(x+1) = 20, then 2(x-3) = 20, then 10(x-3)=20, etc.
I know this is a tough skill and I’ve decided to spend some time on it. I use first time correct to figure out whether students need more time with the scaffolded sequence connecting what they already know to this new type of equation. Right now we’re still in the scaffolded sequence. Today I’ll check again. If we’re at 80%, I’ll probably do another scaffolded sequence. If it’s more like 90%, I’ll note the students who got it wrong and give them some individual support while everyone jumps right into the full skill (and then the questions will get gradually harder, bigger numbers, decimals, etc).
Excellent.
1. Why not call it "Next Day Correct?"
2. Is what flummoxes teachers in high poverty schools precisely that so many of their kids fail Next Day Correct?
So they don't see a point to Retrieval Practice. Also the pacing guide says "Move on." Kafka.
2. They receive handwavey suggestion from some instructional coaches. Oh when we get back to this topic to Retrieval Practice, that's where you can sort of fix all the kids who failed on Next Day Correct."
But if kid didn't grasp it in 50 minutes, empirically what are chances he does grasp it after 20 additional minutes 2 weeks later? Seems low to me.
Carl Hendrick worries about Shallow Understanding with Next Day correct. I agree that's a concern.
But I also think many teachers would say - Actually, Shallow Understanding is a GOOD problem to have in my school. Many kids have zero shallow grasp the next day, so there's not even the Illusion to worry about.
I like Next Day Correct!
I agree that this creates a negative cycle in high poverty schools. “They don’t remember anything…” etc. We fiddle with the initial instruction, try to motivate kids, but it’s the back end where you can often make the biggest gains.
I think a few examples are helpful here re: shallow understanding
A lot of my students struggle to remember that 4 - 7 = -3. They have a strong association between 4, 7, -, and 3 and keep saying it’s positive. It always takes multiple rounds because students are “unlearning” something while also learning something new. This skill is important! We should get it right. The instruction looks like visualizing on number lines, explaining why it’s negative, turn and talk, maybe some writing, practice just negative vs positive. Doesn’t take tons and tons of time, we make steady progress on first time correct until every student knows it. That’s not a deep understanding vs shallow understanding. Lots of students can explain why it’s true but still forget because their habits lead them astray. First time correct helps to shift those habits.
A lot of my students don’t know the meanings of “increase” and “decrease.” Especially common for English language learners. This makes percent increase/decrease problems tough. So we do a little mini-lesson before percent increase/decrease. Here’s what increase and decrease mean, here are some examples, let’s practice a bit, what’s 10 increased by 5. Takes less then 10 minutes. Students have to know this! Good words to learn, helps all the tax/tip/discount/etc stuff stick together. So we do first time correct to see if we’re all there or if we need another 5 minute mini-lesson. First time correct is good for a lot of vocab stuff like this. This supports deep knowledge because increase/decrease help students to think clearly about the percent stuff.
Final example is multi-step procedures. Think solving multi-step equations, multi-digit arithmetic, etc. We all know students will take multiple days to get these procedures down. I often start at about 50% modeling/worked examples/scaffolded practice, 50% independent practice. Then we go down to 25%/75%/ Then 10%/90%. Are we ready to go to 100% independent practice or do students need that 10% to get them started? That’s a tough transition. Again, not necessarily about shallow vs deep understanding, it’s just a complex skill, students need practice to get it right. First time correct helps me figure out if they’re ready to do it independently (which is key for long-term retention, if I always give a quick “hey students don’t forget to…” at the start they become dependent on it) or if we need to keep the scaffolding a bit longer.
Thank you for the detailed response! The 2(x) = 20 step is new and something I would love to try.
Always love to see the Cognitive Resonance version of the Simple Model of the Mind, thanks for sharing. It prompted to finally ask Dan Willingham, who is Greg Cullen, the person who is copyright credited for said model in Dan's book Why Don't Students Like School? For years I assumed he was a cognitive scientist somewhere. Nope, turns out he's an illustrator who's friends with Dan's daughter.
Do you do the "First Time Correct'" checks on mini whiteboards the next day?
Also, how do you plan to re-teach if you find that many students are able to start the procedure but unable to arrive at the accurate answer, with a handful having completely gotten it and another handful having completely forgotten it? This is usually the case in my middle-ability classes.
Yes, mini whiteboards are almost always the way I do the check. Sometimes I use the Do Now but I generally prefer mini whiteboards.
To your second question — here’s where I try to prioritize, because it’s overwhelming to try and reteach every single thing and what you’re describing takes time.
This week I’m teaching students to solve equations like 2(x+1) = 20 by dividing by 2 to get x + 1 = 10. It’s a tough skill and a lot of students didn’t get it the first time. I have a scaffolded sequence I take students through where we start with 2x = 20 (which all students are confident with), then 2(x) = 20 (looks unfamiliar but is an important piece of scaffolding and builds off the last problem), then 2(x+1) = 20, then 2(x-3) = 20, then 10(x-3)=20, etc.
I know this is a tough skill and I’ve decided to spend some time on it. I use first time correct to figure out whether students need more time with the scaffolded sequence connecting what they already know to this new type of equation. Right now we’re still in the scaffolded sequence. Today I’ll check again. If we’re at 80%, I’ll probably do another scaffolded sequence. If it’s more like 90%, I’ll note the students who got it wrong and give them some individual support while everyone jumps right into the full skill (and then the questions will get gradually harder, bigger numbers, decimals, etc).
I hope that answers your question!
Thank you for the detailed response! The 2(x) = 20 step is new and something I would love to try!